Free will and Legality
2015-01-12, 03:22 AM,
#1
So theres always been a lot of dispute around if we have "free will" , and if so , what exactly is meant by it , i personally am not sure , but lean to us not having it . We decide decisions via our brain and/or our soul ( depending on your spiritual views ) , but if we decide via only our brain , then we actually do not have freedom to chose what we do , its simply chemical reactions that cause us to think one thing is better than the other , the same way when you take a drug you act in a certain way due to the chemicals , you act a certain way due to the chemicals already present in your brain as well as the biological make up of your brain . If you accept this as the case , then it isn't actually our fault when we do anything , it's simply the fact that the chemicals that are acting in our brain , chose to do one thing over another , we hold it as correct , so why are you punished for something you can not control ?

If i am presented with a choice between two chocolates , i may chose the second , why , because i like it more , in the same way, if i am presented with a choice of whether to steel or not , i may chose to steel because my brain believes it is a good decision to make and acceptable to make , even if society does not agree .

So trying to put this simply - if we all have pre-determined decision making routes in our head due to our biological make up , are we ever truly at fault , and hence is it really our fault when we break laws and so should we even be punished ?


Side note

If you do believe in a soul , if God has created it , isn't it too made in a way that it will too follow a certain pathway to chose between two decisions and so you actually have no control in the matter ?
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Wolfz(2015-01-12 09:51 PM)  HawkEye(2015-01-12 09:45 PM) Luciano(2015-01-12 07:47 AM) 
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2015-01-12, 09:46 PM,
#2
(2015-01-12, 03:22 AM)xMadnez Wrote: So theres always been a lot of dispute around if we have "free will" , and if so , what exactly is meant by it , i personally am not sure , but lean to us not having it . We decide decisions via our brain and/or our soul ( depending on your spiritual views ) , but if we decide via only our brain , then we actually do not have freedom to chose what we do , its simply chemical reactions that cause us to think one thing is better than the other , the same way when you take a drug you act in a certain way due to the chemicals , you act a certain way due to the chemicals already present in your brain as well as the biological make up of your brain . If you accept this as the case , then it isn't actually our fault when we do anything , it's simply the fact that the chemicals that are acting in our brain , chose to do one thing over another , we hold it as correct , so why are you punished for something you can not control ?

If i am presented with a choice between two chocolates , i may chose the second , why , because i like it more , in the same way, if i am presented with a choice of whether to steel or not , i may chose to steel because my brain believes it is a good decision to make and acceptable to make , even if society does not agree .

So trying to put this simply - if we all have pre-determined decision making routes in our head due to our biological make up , are we ever truly at fault , and hence is it really our fault when we break laws and so should we even be punished ?


Side note

If you do believe in a soul , if God has created it , isn't it too made in a way that it will too follow a certain pathway to chose between two decisions and so you actually have no control in the matter ?

That was an interesting read actually, thanks for writing that up!
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2015-01-12, 09:51 PM,
(This post was last modified: 2015-01-12, 09:52 PM by Wolfz.)
#3
We feel,so we act .

It's all about it IMO.

Sometimes we feel with our "sixth sense".
Sometimes we fell with our rational sense.
Sometimes we feel with both senses.

For me,we have control of our path .
But the final destiny is already made.

''If you spend too much time thinking about a thing, you'll never get it done.'' - Bruce Lee
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2015-01-12, 10:53 PM,
#4
You are too wide here! Saying that, you'll take no responsibility over your acting! If you take drugs and kill somebody and act like, hey, its my brain, its not me, world will be such an ugly place to live. So, at first, you must to know consequences about taking drugs (making decisions) and its your "free will", weather to take it or not. For every action in your life, there is reaction. Other than that, you are allowed by laws and religion to do whatever you want with your life, until your acting doesn't endanger, make harm to other or community where you live. So, do whatever you want, believe in whatever you want,be gay, that's fine by me, as long as your free will make no harm to me!

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2015-01-13, 12:43 AM,
#5
(2015-01-12, 09:46 PM)ϟ★Hawk Eye★ϟ Wrote:
(2015-01-12, 03:22 AM)xMadnez Wrote: So theres always been a lot of dispute around if we have "free will" , and if so , what exactly is meant by it , i personally am not sure , but lean to us not having it . We decide decisions via our brain and/or our soul ( depending on your spiritual views ) , but if we decide via only our brain , then we actually do not have freedom to chose what we do , its simply chemical reactions that cause us to think one thing is better than the other , the same way when you take a drug you act in a certain way due to the chemicals , you act a certain way due to the chemicals already present in your brain as well as the biological make up of your brain . If you accept this as the case , then it isn't actually our fault when we do anything , it's simply the fact that the chemicals that are acting in our brain , chose to do one thing over another , we hold it as correct , so why are you punished for something you can not control ?

If i am presented with a choice between two chocolates , i may chose the second , why , because i like it more , in the same way, if i am presented with a choice of whether to steel or not , i may chose to steel because my brain believes it is a good decision to make and acceptable to make , even if society does not agree .

So trying to put this simply - if we all have pre-determined decision making routes in our head due to our biological make up , are we ever truly at fault , and hence is it really our fault when we break laws and so should we even be punished ?


Side note

If you do believe in a soul , if God has created it , isn't it too made in a way that it will too follow a certain pathway to chose between two decisions and so you actually have no control in the matter ?

That was an interesting read actually, thanks for writing that up!

thanks , i'l hopefully be quite active in posting in this section in future ,

(2015-01-12, 09:51 PM)Wolfz Wrote: We feel,so we act .

It's all about it IMO.

Sometimes we feel with our "sixth sense".
Sometimes we fell with our rational sense.
Sometimes we feel with both senses.

For me,we have control of our path .
But the final destiny is already made.

I feel as though your last two statements are contradictory , unless you are referring to death as the final destiny . However if you are referring to the final destiny as the choice we make , if it's already made , how can we have control over the path to get there if the end result is not of our choosing ?

(2015-01-12, 10:53 PM)Dzo555 Wrote: You are too wide here! Saying that, you'll take no responsibility over your acting! If you take drugs and kill somebody and act like, hey, its my brain, its not me, world will be such an ugly place to live. So, at first, you must to know consequences about taking drugs (making decisions) and its your "free will", weather to take it or not. For every action in your life, there is reaction. Other than that, you are allowed by laws and religion to do whatever you want with your life, until your acting doesn't endanger, make harm to other or community where you live. So, do whatever you want, believe in whatever you want,be gay, that's fine by me, as long as your free will make no harm to me!

Firstly please understand , i'm talking philosophically , not regarding if we should actually not imprison people that is quite another debate - one you are arguing by stating that the world would be a much more ugly place , i no doubt believe that , but this isn't the argument being put forward .

You say its our "free will" whether or not we take a drug , but the question i'm asking is - is it really our choice ? We make decisions based on waying up the good vs bad , as well as our opinion on the matter , our moral view on the activity , but this is unique to each individual , why is it some argue one wa while the other argue another ? Because we view things differently , due to our brains , as we all have different brains our decisions also are different , so if that is the case , if i kill a man , it is due to my brain , my brain has analysed the situation and deemed it correct to do so , realistically you have no choice in the matter , you can not re-program your brain to chose another way or to show you all the options , you simply follow what you think is correct , which is due to your brain , which you had no part in choosing how it worked , so is it your fault when you do anything , are we truly accountable for anything ?

Understand , i am not saying we should now ignore criminals and let them be , i'm simply trying to show you that for one , we have no control in what we do ( unless you bring in a soul , which complicates the matter , but theoretically could lead to the same conclusion ) and that free will may just be an illusion, and if it is so , are we "fair" to imprison criminals , - i hold it is a necessary evil to imprison criminals , but whether it is fair is another question .
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HawkEye(2015-01-13 04:37 PM) 
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2015-01-13, 03:04 AM,
(This post was last modified: 2015-01-13, 03:17 AM by dice.)
#6
evolution is a determined process, if our brains are a product of evolution, then our brains do not have a free will


this documentary made a deep look into free will, look at the experiments the neuroscientist conducted, it just proves that we are machines




(2015-01-12, 10:53 PM)Dzo555 Wrote: You are too wide here! Saying that, you'll take no responsibility over your acting! If you take drugs and kill somebody and act like, hey, its my brain, its not me, world will be such an ugly place to live. So, at first, you must to know consequences about taking drugs (making decisions) and its your "free will", weather to take it or not. For every action in your life, there is reaction. Other than that, you are allowed by laws and religion to do whatever you want with your life, until your acting doesn't endanger, make harm to other or community where you live. So, do whatever you want, believe in whatever you want,be gay, that's fine by me, as long as your free will make no harm to me!

if everybody know that there's no free will, of 99% of human behavior, there will still be laws and penalties, cause and consequence will still apply, society will take action against people who steeal, who scam or kill, if you don't believe in free will, that doesn't mean you don't believe in reward and punishment, that's a useful system for animals (including humans), people should be trained no matter what circumstances to respect order (especially in a sitty nation like mine :D)
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HawkEye(2015-01-13 04:41 PM) 

A good thing sells itself, a bad one advertises itself
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2015-01-13, 04:41 PM,
#7
(2015-01-13, 03:04 AM)dice Wrote: evolution is a determined process, if our brains are a product of evolution, then our brains do not have a free will


this documentary made a deep look into free will, look at the experiments the neuroscientist conducted, it just proves that we are machines




(2015-01-12, 10:53 PM)Dzo555 Wrote: You are too wide here! Saying that, you'll take no responsibility over your acting! If you take drugs and kill somebody and act like, hey, its my brain, its not me, world will be such an ugly place to live. So, at first, you must to know consequences about taking drugs (making decisions) and its your "free will", weather to take it or not. For every action in your life, there is reaction. Other than that, you are allowed by laws and religion to do whatever you want with your life, until your acting doesn't endanger, make harm to other or community where you live. So, do whatever you want, believe in whatever you want,be gay, that's fine by me, as long as your free will make no harm to me!

if everybody know that there's no free will, of 99% of human behavior, there will still be laws and penalties, cause and consequence will still apply, society will take action against people who steeal, who sc@m or kill, if you don't believe in free will, that doesn't mean you don't believe in reward and punishment, that's a useful system for animals (including humans), people should be trained no matter what circumstances to respect order (especially in a sitty nation like mine :D)

Nice, thanks for the share!
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2015-01-14, 11:34 AM,
#8
I can't really answer your question, but this was very interesting and gave me something to think on.
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